Discussion

•  132 days before |  remove (5) |  reply
   Philip Karayan wrote:
  I am sorry spokesman but you seem or probably you pretend not to understand what Mr. Thomas Hammarberg, commissioner for Human Rifhts
  of the Council of Europe clearly said yesterday "THERE SHOULD BE A
  PROFESSIONAL INDEPENDENT AND IMPARTIAL ENQUIRY INTO ARMENIA'S DEADLY
  POST ELECTION UNREST AND ILL-TREATMENT OF THE THOSE ARRESTED AND JAILED"
  You do not understand simply because you not believe in these democratic values. The regime that you loyally serve is a blunt dictatorship and the fact of the matter is that if you carry on like this you will isolate Armenia from its vital western friends and even worse you will
  jeopardize the country's onshore and offshore relationships and its
  course to democracy.
•  132 days before |  remove (4) |  reply
   MIHRAN wrote:
  
  • Philip Karayan
    I am sorry spokesman but you seem or probably you pretend not to understand what Mr. Thomas Hammarberg, commissioner for Human Rifhtsof the Council of Europe clearly said yesterday "THERE SHOULD BE A
    PROFESSIONAL INDEPENDENT AND IMPARTIAL ENQUIRY INTO ARMENIA'S DEADLY
    POST ELECTION UNREST AND ILL-TREATMENT OF THE THOSE ARRESTED AND JAILED"
    You do not understand simply because you not believe in these democratic values. The regime that you loyally serve is a blunt dictatorship and the fact of the matter is that if you carry on like this you will isolate Armenia from its vital western friends and even worse you will
    jeopardize the country's onshore and offshore relationships and its
    course to democracy.
  
  Philip
  You are a pro democracey person...you seem to side with LTB attitude of defending democracy.assume that you have been following our countries path of independence from day one. We should all know by now that Armenia is'nt a democratic state but they are trying to built one.
  I am not trying to give you a lecture I am a simple person as you probably,and am trying to understand the flow of the events less emmotionally.
  All of our leaders are trying to correct the wrongs of the past these wrongs started with our lovely LTB and his government namely the most honourable(Sirarteghian).
  LTB fought with all his might to keep our traditional parties out of an independent and free Armenia.Do I need to mention that it was'nt democratic...you should also recall his acts for a second term when he was facing Vazken. LTB did'nt wait 11 day to provide people a chance to speak their minds.... within one day the police force was brought in to dispurce Vazken's followers . The erason they did'nt use fire arms....Vazken's followers wer'nt armed and he did'nt use the same unacceptable tactics LTB has used . Vazken and his folowers prefered the security and stability of Armenia to be their only goal...
  IF YOU RECALL LTB VISITED THE USA A YEAR OR SO AGO . USA IS NOT VERY FOND OF THE PRESENT REGIME BECAUSE THEY ARE RUNNING A HARD CORE DIPLOMACY... THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE . THEY HAVE BEEFED UP A RED COLOR UPHEAVEL TO GET SOMBODY THAT WILL BE PRO WEAT. I TOO BELIEVE THAT WE NEED THE USA AND BUILT FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH OUR NEIGHBOURS ... CAN THE USA DEFEND OUR LEGITIMATE WRIGHTS IT'S HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE CAN THE RUSSIANS DEFEND OUR WRIGHTS EQUALLY QUETIONABLE WE CAN AND SHOULD ONLY DIFFEND OUR WRIGHTS ALL TO GETHERR AS ONE NATION NO INTERDIVISIONS
  Mihran
•  132 days before |  remove (5) |  reply
   MIHRAN wrote:
  
  • MIHRAN
    Philip
    You are a pro democracey person...you seem to side with LTB attitude of defending democracy.assume that you have been following our countries path of independence from day one. We should all know by now that Armenia is'nt a democratic state but they are trying to built one.
    I am not trying to give you a lecture I am a simple person as you probably,and am trying to understand the flow of the events less emmotionally.
    All of our leaders are trying to correct the wrongs of the past these wrongs started with our lovely LTB and his government namely the most
    honourable(Sirarteghian).
    LTB fought with all his might to keep our traditional parties out of an independent and free Armenia.Do I need to mention that it was'nt democratic...you should also recall his acts for a second term when he was facing Vazken. LTB did'nt wait 11 day to provide people a chance to speak their minds.... within one day the police force was brought in to dispurs Vazken's followers . The erason they did'nt use fire arms....Vazken's followers wer'nt armed and he did'nt use the same unacceptable tactics LTB has used . Vazken and his folowers prefered the security and stability of Armenia to be their only goal...
    IF YOU RECALL LTB VISITED THE USA A YEAR OR SO AGO . USA IS NOT VERY FOND OF THE PRESENT REGIME BECAUSE THEY ARE RUNNING A HARD CORE DIPLOMACY... THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE . THEY HAVE BEEFED UP A RED COLOR UPHEAVEL TO GET SOMEBODY THAT WILL BE PRO WEST. I TOO BELIEVE THAT WE NEED THE USA ON OUR SIDE AND BUILT FRIENDLY RELATIONS WITH OUR NEIGHBOURS ... CAN THE USA DEFEND OUR LEGITIMATE WRIGHTS IT'S HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE CAN THE RUSSIANS DEFEND OUR WRIGHTS EQUALLY QUETIONABLE WE CAN AND SHOULD ONLY DIFFEND OUR WRIGHTS ALL TO GETHERR AS ONE NATION NO INTERDIVISIONS.THE RUSSIANS ARE SOMEHOW MORE REASONABLE THAN THE USA SIMPLY BECAUSE THE REGION IS BORDERING RUSSIA AND THEY NEED TO KEEP AN INFLUENCE THE USA IS SIMPLY INTERESTED FOR THE GAZ AND THEIR OLD FRIEND AND NATO PARTNER TURKEY.
    Mihran
  
  
•  131 days before |  remove (5) |  reply
   Philip Karayan wrote:
  Mirhan,
  Let me be clear on one thing. I believe and hope that peaceful popular uprisings like the recent one in our country, against brutal regimes eventually would single out the leader who hopefully would live to the expectations of the people for democracy, transparency, prospects for a better living, social security, medicare and dignity. I think this is an historical fact , however, exceptions do exist.
  Therefore, I am not in favor of A or B, I am in favor of the PEOPLE who have the courage and the stamina despite the tortures and killings they undergo, to stand up and make their voice heard on-shore and off-shore. If you consider this emotional, then I'll buy it.
  As to the events, I agree that Vazken Manoukian was persecuted and of course I strongly condemn it, however, the strong man at the time was Vazken Sarkisian (I think he was th misinster of defence at the time LTB was president). There is also one other thing which is that we did not have a bloodshed of the people like the one we had couple of weeks ago (don't take it for granted the official count of deaths). I am sure you know about the tragic and despicable events which followed not long after when the karabach clan came in power. I am talking about the slaughter of the prime minister of Armenia Demirjian, Vazken Sarkisian and six more representative in the parliament at day light. Has any one been hold accounted for these CRIMES?
  Finally, like I said, we have some experience of dictators and dictatorship in Greece and the fact of the matter is that when they are overthrown they leave behind destruction, poverty and above all national tragedy (the invasion and the de facto division of Cyprus by Turkey).
  
•  131 days before |  remove (5) |  reply
   Albert wrote:
  
  Here is a message from a European in answer to the nonsense communicated by Robert:
  Robert, you uderstand NOTHING of Europe and European standards of politics and social life. You just don't have the level of experience, general culture and education to understand.
  In Europe, we don't have criminal regimes. Our governments do not shoot at us if we go to the streets to manifest. A few years ago the streets of PAris were on fire but no bullets were shot.
  The day you actually understand what a developed social and political system is you will stop communcating the non-sense.
  Maybe, Robert should pick up some university studies in EU and get himself a diploma. It could help. How about a diploma in political and economic studies???
  
•  130 days before |  remove (5) |  reply
   MIHRAN wrote:
  
  • Philip Karayan
    Mirhan, Let me be clear on one thing. I believe and hope that peaceful popular uprisings like the recent one in our country, against brutal regimes eventually would single out the leader who hopefully would live to the expectations of the people for democracy, transparency, prospects for a better living, social security, medicare and dignity. I think this is an historical fact , however, exceptions do exist.
    Therefore, I am not in favor of A or B, I am in favor of the PEOPLE who have the courage and the stamina despite the tortures and killings they undergo, to stand up and make their voice heard on-shore and off-shore.
    If you consider this emotional, then I'll buy it.
    As to the events, I agree that Vazken Manoukian was persecuted and of course I strongly condemn it, however, the strong man at the time was Vazken Sarkisian (I think he was th misinster of defence at the time LTB was president). There is also one other thing which is that we did not have a bloodshed of the people like the one we had couple of weeks ago (don't take it for granted the official count of deaths). I am sure you know about the tragic and despicable events which followed not long after when the karabach clan came in power. I am talking about the slaughter of the prime minister of Armenia Demirjian, Vazken Sarkisian and six more representative in the parliament at day light. Has any one been hold accounted for these CRIMES?
    Finally, like I said, we have some experience of dictators and dictatorship in Greece and the fact of the matter is that when they are overthrown they leave behind destruction, poverty and above all national tragedy (the invasion and the de facto division of Cyprus by Turkey).
  
  Philip
  you are correct Vazken S
•  130 days before |  remove (5) |  reply
   MIHRAN wrote:
  
  • Philip Karayan
    Mirhan, Let me be clear on one thing. I believe and hope that peaceful popular uprisings like the recent one in our country, against brutal regimes eventually would single out the leader who hopefully would live to the expectations of the people for democracy, transparency, prospects for a better living, social security, medicare and dignity. I think this is an historical fact , however, exceptions do exist.
    Therefore, I am not in favor of A or B, I am in favor of the PEOPLE who have the courage and the stamina despite the tortures and killings they undergo, to stand up and make their voice heard on-shore and off-shore. If you consider this emotional, then I'll buy it.
    As to the events, I agree that Vazken Manoukian was persecuted and of course I strongly condemn it, however, the strong man at the time was Vazken Sarkisian (I think he was th misinster of defence at the time LTB was president). There is also one other thing which is that we did not have a bloodshed of the people like the one we had couple of weeks ago (don't take it for granted the official count of deaths). I am sure you know about the tragic and despicable events which followed not long after when the karabach clan came in power. I am talking about the slaughter of the prime minister of Armenia Demirjian, Vazken Sarkisian and six more representative in the parliament at day light. Has any one been hold accounted for these CRIMES?
    Finally, like I said, we have some experience of dictators and dictatorship in Greece and the fact of the matter is that when they are overthrown they leave behind destruction, poverty and above all national tragedy (the invasion and the de facto division of Cyprus by Turkey).
  
  Vazken Srkisyan was the defence minister we should'nt confuse the ellection frauds that LTB commited to still the preaidency from V Manoukian. different time periods. as to who is responsible for the massacres in the parliament ? we need to have a very sober/and non biased mind. it is a very complex issue do'nt jump on conclussins/assumptions that RK&SS are the criminals is
  idiotic/unmature cheap shot.a personal friend of mine who happen to be a Huntchak.I do'nt mean that this is the huntchak version of the happenings do'nt misunderstand me.it was only his personal idea said the following day the same assumptions.lets be serious if indeed RK&SS FABRICATED THE MASACRE THAN MY FRIEND WE ARMENIANS NEED NOT TO HAVE AN INDEPENDANT COUNTRY ANY MORE.AND DO'NT CALL ME NAIVE OR EMMOTIONAL.DO'NT FORGET THAT A DAY BEFORE A TOP US OFFICIAL WAS IN YEREVAN FOR A VERRY IMPORTANT MEETING VAZKEN PROMISSED TO FIGHT CORRUPTION ... I AM ALSO NOT ASSUMING ANY MAJOR COUNTRY IS INVOLVED EITHER.PERSONELLY MY DOUBT IS THE OLIGARCHS AND THE UNDER GROUND MAFIOZOS COMBINED WITH SOME JEALOUSY FROM BOTH OUR HISTORICAL ENEMIES.BECAUSE V SARIKISSIAN MANMAGED TO BUILT AN EFFICIENT ARMY OUT OF NOTHING.THE REALITY WILL BE SPELLED OUT EVENTUALLY IT CA'NT BE A STATE SECRET FOREVER. IN THE MENATIME A MATURE NATION HAS TO REFRAIN HERSLF FROM SMEARING ACH OTHER.
  Mihran
  
•  130 days before |  remove (5) |  reply
   Philip Karayan wrote:
  Mirhan,
  I am sorry to say that you are talking nonsense or I am unable to understand your english or perhaps both. Make an effort to understand the following: I am simply stating the facts concerning the brutal slaughtering of eight heroic Armenians (the prime minister inclusive) in the parliament of Armenia and I am speaking my mind loud and clear asking a very simple and reasonable question, has any one been held accounted for these brutal massacre? You are mixed up and confused. No one is jumping to assumptions further more to conclusions on who are the CRIMINALS? You should not put words into one's mouth, it is not right at all. If you know the criminals, tell us if you do not know then join your voice with ours and ask for JUSTICE. Unfortunately, recently, we were once again spectators of exactly the same brutal behavior exercised by the the same regime on peaceful Armenian demonstrators. Wake up a lot of our compatriots were murdered, do you really expect justice will be served under a state of emergency from an authoritarian regime? Finally, a word for the elections of feb.19. '08, if you want to be impartial then you should read the reports from OSCE, The European Council, Human Rights Watch, the OSCE ombudsman in Armenia (Haroutounian if I recall his name) the US foreign dept., the Armenian Assembly of America, to mention only few.
  are saying.
  
•  130 days before |  remove (5) |  reply
   MIHRAN wrote:
  
  • Philip Karayan
    Mirhan, I am sorry to say that you are talking nonsense or I am unable to understand your english or perhaps both. Make an effort to understand the following: I am simply stating the facts concerning the brutal slaughtering of eight heroic Armenians (the prime minister inclusive) in the parliament of Armenia and I am speaking my mind loud and clear asking a very simple and reasonable question, has any one been held accounted for these brutal massacre? You are mixed up and confused. No one is jumping to assumptions further more to conclusions on who are the CRIMINALS? You should not put words into one's mouth, it is not right at all. If you know the criminals, tell us if you do not know then join your voice with ours and ask for JUSTICE. Unfortunately, recently, we were once again spectators of exactly the same brutal behavior exercised by the the same regime on peaceful Armenian demonstrators. Wake up a lot of our compatriots were murdered, do you really expect justice will be served under a state of emergency from an authoritarian regime? Finally, a word for the elections of feb.19. '08, if you want to be impartial then you should read the reports from OSCE, The European Council, Human Rights Watch, the OSCE ombudsman in Armenia (Haroutounian if I recall his name) the US foreign dept., the Armenian Assembly of America, to mention only few.
    are saying.
  
  Philip
  I understand that you accept LTB's statements during his introductory speech,describing his opponents criminals from gharapagh and albanian turks.otherwize you will not consistantly refer the present regime as ditators.11 days wer'nt enough to respect democracy?who has fired first is the real question. the goverment will provide all the proofs, the LTB'ers will say it's all lies. .
  you also said that LTB did'nt use firarms to dispurse Vazken's followers and disregaded the fact that Vazken's followers wer'nt armed.their purpose was not to destabilize the country.
  whenever we have an ellection in north America the candidates use a descent language to decribe the wrongs of their opponents.but you seem to agree with LTB's foul language and the follow up gestures resulting the march 1rst upheaval,and further defending the voice of freedom and expression of speech and democracy. I never thought that a deffender of democracy and freedom of speech will think one sided even when the stability of our country is at stake.
  Dear friend I am not confused or my English is not wright to be understood it is simple that you are getting nervous with your good english. I DID'NT START TO BECOME PERSONEL YOU DID! some typo's yes i do'nt use word's spelling softwear. read it if you like do'nt if you do'nt like!but remain respectfull.
  Mihran