Published since 07.2002
Published on May 09, 2008
BACK ON THE STUMP: OPPOSITIONISTS PACK GOVERNMENT HALL TO HEAR LATEST RALLY BY TER-PETROSYAN
- The opposition movement led by former president Levon Ter-Petrosyan held a congress in a closely packed conference hall in the Government Building Friday. More than a thousand people had gathered outside in Melik-Adamyan Street while inside it was even difficult to find a place for standing. Opposition leaders had long encountered problems in trying to find premises for holding the meeting. There was even some talk about a possible gathering in neighboring Georgia, but the newly appointed prime minister had magnanimously let the opposition have the premises, saying that the government’s conference hall was provided to all political forces on equal terms. The Congress, which was called by the organizers “Movement Heralding National Awakening”, began its workings by observing a minute’s silence to pay tribute to the memory of at least ten people who died in post-election violence on March 1. Speeches threaded out and held together with appeals to continue the movement and not lose heart every now and then were interrupted by passionate exclamations “Levon!” and “Struggle Till the End!”, and former foreign Minister Alexander Arzumanyan’s wife Melissa Brown, speaking on behalf of the wives of jailed oppositionists, said that they had been deprived of their husbands, however they “weren’t poor but were lucky to have hero husbands”. Former president Levon Ter-Petrosyan delivered his first public speech since March 1 and typically it was long, divided into several parts – “Clash or Slaughter”, “Western attitude towards Armenian elections and the March 1 events”, “Split or Unification of Society” and “Immediate Tasks of the Nationwide Movement”. Ter-Petrosyan qualified as a “slaughter” what was committed on March 1 and fingered the then “regime leader”, former president Robert Kocharyan as the main person who “orchestrated” it. He emphasized that “even though formally [incumbent president] Serzh Sargsyan has nothing to do with issuing the order, as president-elect he was obliged to prevent what happened.” The ex-president described Kocharyan’s claims that police had been on an assignment to conduct a search in the tent camp of opposition protesters in the pre-dawn hours of March 1 as “unbecoming lies on the level of a traitor”. “Had the police informed the protesters that they had come to Liberty Square only for a search, the pro-government media would have run that television footage a hundred times. Besides, no country has seen three or four thousand police go for a search,” Ter-Petrosyan said. According to Ter-Petrosyan, snap presidential and parliamentary elections are the only way and option to alleviate the tensions existing between the society and government. “But neither the authorities nor European organizations that oversee the process of Armenia’s democratization are yet ready for this option, and we need to provide the movement with a new organizational form and a new name,” said Ter-Petrosyan. The former president suggested that the movement of more than two dozen political parties and organizations be named the Armenian National Congress, saying that eventually it might grow into a single political party playing “a permanent and decisive role” in all political events in Armenia, participating in elections at all levels with single candidates or common lists. The former president also responded to the continuing discussion about a possible dialogue between the government and the opposition, saying that “not accepting the legitimacy of the regime that usurped power” they cannot but reckon with “the circumstance of their being a political factor” and “are ready for dialogue.” “For this the authorities have to fulfill the demands of the April 17 resolution of the PACE,” Ter-Petrosyan said, adding that above all the authorities must release their jailed friends. In his speech, Ter-Petrosyan spoke critically not only about the second and third presidents, but also about international structures, saying that the observers of the OSCE/Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights had their share of responsibility in what had happened. “The observation mission of the OSCE/ODIHR legitimized the disgraceful presidential elections held in Armenia in conditions of widespread electoral fraud. Despite the fact that they register in detail that there were violations, violence, fraud, vote buying, ballot box stuffing, however note that it did not impact the outcome of the election.” According to him, inspired by that statement, the Armenian authorities not only thwarted the vote recount process, but also “organized the March 1 bloody provocation” qualifying peaceful demonstrations as an attempt to usurp power.
- Gayane Abrahamyan
Discussion
ARSHAK-10 wrote:
Somebody explain us what is Struggle till "THE END" What is THE END? Taking down the present president and put LTP??? or Never be satisfied till they do WHAT?? We have a sick feeling that This NOT about Armenia... This is PERSONAL w/foreign help. This is a CANCER CELL...
MIHRAN wrote:- ARSHAK-10
Somebody explain us what is Struggle till "THE END" What is THE END? Taking down the present president and put LTP??? or Never be satisfied till they do WHAT?? We have a sick feeling that This NOT about Armenia... This is PERSONAL w/foreign help. This is a CANCER CELL...
Arshak
You are 100% correct LTB and his gangs are working against the true interests of his/our homeland.
Armenia will overcome these tragedies also .... this has nothing to do with freedom of expressions,free and transparent ellections or democracy.this is pure(SABOTAGE).
Mihran- ARSHAK-10
- A concerned armenian wrote:
You are 100% Ignorant. If it has nothing to do with freedom of expression, free and transparent elections, democracy, freedom of assembly, then why are there political prisoners? Why did March 1 occur? Where is the independent investigation? Where did the PACE demands come from? (And I don't want to hear how Europe and the West is not democratic so therefore they have no right to demand democracy from Armenia.)
My dear Dashnaks, Your asses are burning because LTP will not give up to come to power to give our people a chance to live with justice and liberty and in a democratic society and kick your sorry ass sellout political party out of Armenia. As far as Cancer is concerned I think we know who the cancer of Armenia is. It is not Robert Kocharian, Serzh Sarkisian, or the police, it is the Dashnak party living under the skirt of the authorities for over a decade. Chew On That. - ARSHAK-10 wrote:
- A concerned armenian
You are 100% Ignorant. If it has nothing to do with freedom of expression, free and transparent elections, democracy, freedom of assembly, then why are there political prisoners? Why did March 1 occur? Where is the independent investigation? Where did the PACE demands come from? (And I don't want to hear how Europe and the West is not democratic so therefore they have no right to demand democracy from Armenia.)My dear Dashnaks, Your asses are burning because LTP will not give up to come to power to give our people a chance to live with justice and liberty and in a democratic society and kick your sorry ass sellout political party out of Armenia. As far as Cancer is
concerned I think we know who the cancer of Armenia is. It is Robert Kocharian, Serzh Sarkisian, or the police, it is the Dashnak party living under the skirt of the authorities for over a decade. Chew On That.
Dear "Concerned Armenian" Your comment was NOT the answer of my question. You're talking against DASHNAKS... WE ARE TALKING ARMENIA. Your mind scope proved to be very narrow. AND if LTP was really good, why PEOPLE took him down. What you say, ANYBODY KNOWS. We are looking for PROFESSIONAL ANSWERS. And it's not polite to declare to Mihran "You are 100% ignorant". Watch world news and you'll see the Police in countries deal with disturbors in much worse ways. Our police didn't even carry guns that day, and LTP knew that.... That man LTP has a small soul and a big ego. - A concerned armenian
- MIHRAN wrote:
- A concerned armenian
You are 100% Ignorant. If it has nothing to do with freedom of expression, free and transparent elections, democracy, freedom of assembly, then why are there political prisoners? Why did March 1 occur? Where is the independent investigation? Where did the PACE demands come from? (And I don't want to hear how Europe and the West is not democratic so therefore they have no right to demand democracy from Armenia.)My dear Dashnaks, Your asses are burning because LTP will not give up to come to power to give our people a chance to live with justice and liberty and in a democratic society and kick your sorry ass sellout political party out of Armenia. As far as Cancer is concerned I think we know who the cancer of Armenia is. It is not Robert Kocharian, Serzh Sarkisian, or the police, it is the Dashnak party living under the skirt of the authorities for over a decade. Chew On That.
to our angry concerned armenian
A polite concerned Armenian... SHOULD STICK TO THE ETHICS OF GOOD AND CONSTRUCTIF COMMUNICATIONS.
I wonder who's rear ends are burning.whenever you decide to write next time,please... use civilised expressions to be respected.
Mihran - A concerned armenian
- DASHNAK wrote:
To "Concerned Armenian": This guy Arshak has asked a general question "What is the END?" means, and U madmouth Dashnaks... Firstly, Dashnaks do not hate LTP... Secondly, U did NOT answer that very important question, THIRDLY, DASHNAKS NEVER EVER HIDE IN ANYBODY'S behind. If Dashnaks really want to get rid of someone, does not matter who, From Talaat to Nagashitze, to Any Armenia trator or separator, history shows they are not shy to do so, even in broad daylight. So don't be a M.F...saying "Burning asses" to Dashnaks. U-R everything but "Concerned" about this situation. LTP WAS BROUGHT DOWN CAUSE HE WANTED TO SELL KARABAGH. NOBODY TOUCHES KARABAGH NOBODY... - Rafael wrote:
My fellow Armenians here (mostly dashnaks) might argue dashnaks dont hate LTP or Dashnaks are for a better Armenia (and them joining the coalition provided that), and they might even refer to certain newspaper articles, but when it comes down to it they are Armenia who were never insiders during the movement that started from the Karabagh committee. I'm not negating this comments I'm just saying unless someone can tell me that he was a insider during those times, your info is not accurate, to some extent. I'm not saying I was LTP butler, but I know a little or two things about what went on during the LTP era. First the reason LTP banned Dashnaks is that when he got elected they tried to bully him, by presenting their agendas on him (if one wants to argue with me, then present smth useful and not some article or opinion). When LTP jailed the Dashnak heads (one of them being VH) the party backlashed against LTP. The ARF doesn't like LTP for what he did to them, simple as that. Now Arshak-10 says what doesn struggle til the end mean? well in opera he said it means until the crowd carries him to the presidential palace. Now please don't mix LTP with whats going on in Armenia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People like Ara Sahakian and Karo Rubinian were NOT active LTP supporters, but are in jail??? Can someone explain this to me, and don't quote some garbage newspaper, because I was there when Sahakian got arrested by like 14 OMON troops!!! Why is Arzumanian in jail? because he supported a opposition candidate? because he didn't acknowledge the Armenian election? If someone here thinks SS passed fair and square in the first round then they are a idiot!!!, because RK couldnt even pass SD in the first round (LTP, SD, RH, AS were all under one ticket). Now for the rest of the commentators, lets face it the ARF will never come to power in Armenia, they are not a force there. Yes the ARF is a force amongst the Diaspora, but in Armenia its a different ball game. Arshak You say if LTP is so good why people took him down??? If your talking about his resignation, no body took him down he resigned to prevent bloodshead. Also the people in Armenia are always not happy (look when it was ASSR they blammed the commies, when it was LTP they blammed LTP and said oh god remember those commie days, when KR/SS came they said oh god look at these karabaghtsis remember LTP and his intellectuallness. If you would have had 100%control for the Armenian election and reduced all forms of bribary (hypotherically), then LTP would have won SS because they view him as the lesser of two evils. I would have voted for neither, because there are better candidates. Now 'Dashnak' says LTP was brought down because he wanted to sell karabagh??? I ask you to go to Armenia, wait in front of LTP house long enough and beg him to talk to you so that you'll know what really happened??? No one wanted to sell nothing!!! And for future discussions please don't invent ideas and try to pass them off as facts. - Rafael wrote:
Police didn't but military did, starting from officer rank, the military had guns locked and loaded? If you want to argue this info, I'll provide you with some specific info from a colonal that participated in March 1.- ARSHAK-10
Dear "Concerned Armenian" Your comment was NOT the answer of my question. You're talking against DASHNAKS... WE ARE TALKING ARMENIA. Your mind scope proved to be very narrow. AND if LTP was really good, why PEOPLE took him down. What you say, ANYBODY KNOWS. We are looking for PROFESSIONAL ANSWERS. And it's not polite to declare to Mihran "You are 100% ignorant". Watch world news and you'll see the Police in countries deal with disturbors in much worse ways. Our police didn't even carry guns that day, and LTP knew that.... That man LTP has a small soul and a big ego.
- ARSHAK-10
- DASHNAK wrote:
Raphael. So You say LTP won't rest till he becomes president BY FORCE. That's revolution. Let him do stuff like this in Turkey or Iran, or even USA. I mean, after the official election is declared, he DOES NOT CARE about a Sh.... and gathers mob kind crowds w/cocktail molotoves, bring kids, elderlies and women in the crowd, later to declare "Police violence agaist innocent people". I beleive the Government of Armenia is very soft towards him. VERY !!!- And about the police having guns.- Ask the editors of this pages about that. They'll tell you. AND when police did not have guns in the beginning NEVER MEANS they were stupid enough not having it nearby. BY THE WAY, I FELT SOOO PROUDE WHEN I SAW THE ARMENIAN POLICE BRIGADES EQUAL TO EUROPEAN STANDARDS. Police did their job. Let's not be sentimental "They attacked Armenians". What do you expect they should attack the Chinese??? - MIHRAN wrote:
- Rafael
My fellow Armenians here (mostly dashnaks) might argue dashnaks dont hate LTP or Dashnaks are for a better Armenia (and them joining the coalition provided that), and they might even refer to certain newspaper articles, but when it comes down to it they are Armenia who were never insiders during the movement that started from the Karabagh committee. I'm not negating this comments I'm just saying unless someone can tell me that he was a insider during those times, your info is not accurate, to some extent. I'm not saying I was LTP butler, but I know a little or two things about what went on during the LTP era. First the reason LTP banned Dashnaks is that when he got elected they tried to bully him, by presenting their agendas on him (if one wants to argue with me, then present smth useful and not some article or opinion). When LTP jailed the Dashnak heads (one of them being VH) the party backlashed against LTP. The ARF doesn't like LTP for what he did to them, simple as that. Now Arshak-10 says what doesn struggle til the end mean? well in opera he said it means until the crowd carries him to the presidential palace. Now please don't mix LTP with whats going on in Armenia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People like Ara Sahakian and Karo Rubinian were NOT active LTP supporters, but are in jail??? Can someone explain this to me, and don't quote some garbage newspaper, because I was there when Sahakian got arrested by like 14 OMON troops!!! Why is Arzumanian in jail? because he supported a opposition candidate? because he didn't acknowledge the Armenian election? If someone here thinks SS passed fair and square in the first round then they are a idiot!!!, because RK couldnt even pass SD in the first round (LTP, SD, RH, AS were all under one ticket). Now for the rest of the commentators, lets face it the ARF will never come to power in Armenia, they are not a force there. Yes the ARF is a force amongst the Diaspora, but in Armenia its a different ball game. Arshak You say if LTP is so good why people took him down??? If your talking about his resignation, no body took him down he resigned to prevent bloodshead. Also the people in Armenia are always not happy (look when it was ASSR they blammed the commies, when it was LTP they blammed LTP and said oh god remember those commie days, when KR/SS came they said oh god look at these karabaghtsis remember LTP and his intellectuallness. If you would have had 100%control for the Armenian election and reduced all forms of bribary (hypotherically), then LTP would have won SS because they view him as the lesser of two evils. I would have voted for neither, because there are better candidates. Now 'Dashnak' says LTP was brought down because he wanted to sell karabagh??? I ask you to go to Armenia, wait in front of LTP house long enough and beg him to talk to you so that you'll know what really happened??? No one wanted to sell nothing!!! And for future discussions please don't invent ideas and try to pass them off as facts.
Rafael:
LTB resigned because his reconciliatory policies betrayed him.The ARMENIAN PARLIAMENT REFUSED HIS PROPOSALS.once not enough he wants to try over again,because some Turkish newspapers expressed regerets in regards of Turkey's hard line when ltb was in power.THIS DOES NOT EXPRESS THE TURKISH GOVERMENT'S CHANGE OF HEART...
Presently LTB and his team wants to try a second time,trough their familly ties,and the support of the USA to resolve the conflicts somehow...
Let's not forget the attitude that Turkey has demonstrated during the recent 20 years plus... opposing/rejecting any policy that does not serve turkey's interests 100%. what are the chances of Armenia to win an honest deal out of this kind of an attitude.We all know very well,its complete defiance in regard to the Armenian genocide.So friends of LTB and enemies of Dashnags and Dashnag style thinkers.How wize could we be to expect any semi successfull results/solutions,that will not defy our dignity.If turkey realy is interested in an honest dialogue,it should not matter who is in power.Armenia always stated to be open for dialogue without preconditions.I want to believe that if LTB will make the difference...than he is ready to give in to the basic principal of recognizing of our genocide.This ultimatelyis the scenario that will provide the fatal and final blow ,ending Armenia's unity and it's statehood..that is turkey's dream...it coold be realised possibly trough LTB'S SCENARIO.
SO let's not fight amongst ourselves to make the turkish dream come true...
Mihran - Rafael
- MIHRAN wrote:
- MIHRAN
Rafael:
LTB resigned because his reconciliatory policies betrayed him.The ARMENIAN PARLIAMENT REFUSED HIS PROPOSALS.once not enough he wants to try over again,because some Turkish newspapers expressed regerets in regards of Turkey's hard line when ltb was in power.THIS DOES NOT EXPRESS THE TURKISH GOVERMENT'S CHANGE OF HEART...
Presently LTB and his team wants to try a second time,trough their familly ties,and the support of the USA to resolve the conflicts somehow...
Let's not forget the attitude that Turkey has demonstrated during the recent 20 years plus... opposing/rejecting any policy that does not serve turkey's interests 100%. what are the chances of Armenia to win an honest deal out of this kind of an attitude.We all know very well,its complete defiance in regard to the Armenian genocide.So friends of LTB and enemies of Dashnags and Dashnag style thinkers.How wize could we be to expect any semi successfull results/solutions,that will not defy our dignity.If turkey realy is interested in an honest dialogue,it should not matter who is in power.Armenia always stated to be open for dialogue without preconditions.I want to believe that if LTB will make the difference...than he is ready to give in to the basic principal of recognizing of our genocide.This ultimatelyis the scenario that will provide the fatal and final blow ,ending Armenia's unity and it's statehood..that is turkey's dream...it coold be realised possibly trough LTB'S SCENARIO.
SO let's not fight amongst ourselves to make the turkish dream come true...
Mihran
addendum:
...opposing party do not tell me i am a dreamer i do not understand armenian politics you already have said this once, only to keep going with needless discussions. USA IS NOT STRONG ENOUGH WHEN IT COMES THE DEFEND THE WRIGHTS OF THE ARMENIAN.AND THAT IS FOR UNDERSTANDABLE REASONS ...NOT BECAUSE USA DOES'NT LIKE TO HELP ARMENIA...THE USA HAS TO PLAY IT'S OWN GEOPOLITICS OF THE REGION.
presently mrs rice invited Nalbantian to a meeting ....
Mihran - MIHRAN
- ARSHAK-10 wrote:
Oh that RICE... not even good for a hearty Pilaf... - Rafael wrote:
I agree with you regarding the Turkish stance, however in my mind our #1 enemy is not Turkey, but ourselves. Turkey is not in Armenia now meddling with our government creating corruption and horrible living conditions...Armenians are doing this to their own people. There are not even 3 million Armenians left in Armenia, it like 2.8 and who is responsible for this? LTP/RK/SS. The RK/SS grew out of the HHSH faction and LTP policy was to get people out of the country so that they would help others in the country. Sounds absurd??? Well that was the official stance HHSH took when they were in power, noting that Armenia coould only hold about 700,000 people- MIHRAN
addendum:
...opposing party do not tell me i am a dreamer i do not understand armenian politics you already have said this once, only to keep going with needless discussions. USA IS NOT STRONG ENOUGH WHEN IT COMES THE DEFEND THE WRIGHTS OF THE ARMENIAN.AND THAT IS FOR UNDERSTANDABLE REASONS ...NOT BECAUSE USA DOES'NT LIKE TO HELP ARMENIA...THE USA HAS TO PLAY IT'S OWN GEOPOLITICS OF THE REGION.
presently mrs rice invited Nalbantian to a meeting ....
Mihran
- MIHRAN
- Avo wrote:
I still think you are 100% ignorant and 100% Bias. My mind is quite clear and open! I think it is just the opposite. It seems like you're the one with the narrow mind when you are justifying all the illegal activities of the authorities from the pre-election, to the post election, to the instigation of March 1 violence, to the political prisoners, ban on rallies and meetings, the state of emergency, and the fake coalition. Each item I listed could open up a whole can of worms with lists and lists of crimes against our citizens of Armenia.
As far as answering your question about the end, If you know a little about politics you would know that there is no end in politics. The short term END is to get rid of Serzhik and his regime out of office, the next END is to prosecute him along with his predecessor for March 1 & October 27 & electoral Fraud.
As far as your statement "Our police didn't even carry guns that day, and LTP knew that.... That man LTP has a small soul and a big ego." - Avo wrote:
As far as your statement "Our police didn't even carry guns that day, and LTP knew that.... That man LTP has a small soul and a big ego."
Please, at least don't write a statement like that on paper. Go on youtube and see some videos. cops or military or whoever the heck in uniforms were blatantly shooting at people and running them over with cars and you're here to tell me that they didn't have guns? LTP knew that? LTP knew what? Quite the contrary. LTP is a man of big soul and a big heart. Narrow minded people are those who are pro-government.
Back to dashnaks, I want to remind you, back in the days when LTP was at war with azerbeijan and banned Dashnaks out of Armenia, the Dashnaks were running a campaign to have an additional blockade from Georgia and Iran in addition to Turkey and Azerbeijan to weaken LTP instead of standing up for the Armenian cause and trying to win the war. However, in this political turmoil of today, when everyone was critisizing LTP for destabilizing the country, he made a statement to back Serzh Sarkissian if a war ever started with Azerbeijan, quite the contrary to what Dashnaks were doing about 20 years ago. Now the Dashnaks have a logo on Horizon TV channel claiming they liberated Artsakh when the commander-in-chief at the time was LTP. Chew on that. - ARSHAK-10 wrote:
- Avo
As far as your statement "Our police didn't even carry guns that day, and LTP knew that.... That man LTP has a small soul and a big ego." Please, at least don't write a statement like that on paper. Go on youtube and see some videos. cops or military or whoever the heck in uniforms were blatantly shooting at people and running them over with cars and you're here to tell me that they didn't have guns? LTP knew that? LTP knew what? Quite the contrary. LTP is a man of big soul and a big heart. Narrow minded people are those who are pro-government.
Back to dashnaks, I want to remind you, back in the days when LTP was at war with azerbeijan and banned Dashnaks out of Armenia, the Dashnaks were running a campaign to have an additional blockade from Georgia and Iran in addition to Turkey and Azerbeijan to weaken LTP instead of standing up for the Armenian cause and trying to win the war. However, in this political turmoil of today, when everyone was critisizing LTP for destabilizing the country, he made a statement to back Serzh Sarkissian if a war ever started with Azerbeijan, quite the contrary to what Dashnaks were doing about 20 years ago. Now the Dashnaks have a logo on Horizon TV channel claiming they liberated Artsakh when the commander-in-chief at the time was LTP. Chew on that.
- Avo
- ARSHAK-10 wrote:
Avo- Thanks for being a mind reader and an amature psychiatrist, evaluating and giving free prsecriptions to everybody you don't know. You are a typical armenian, and equal to to your LTP guy Follow him like the camels follow the donkey... like the song says "INCH EL VOR LINI CHENK HANDURJI PARDUTYUN"... LTP LOST. PERIOD. HAS NO RIGHT TO GATHER PEOPLE AND DISTURB THE PEACE. And to answer you at your level of class when you said "Chew on it" Anyone has a better something to offer to anybody to chew on.... And... mentioning that stupid You Tube... Everybody has become somebody on You Tube. Keep watching it. It helps you to "Develop" your mind scope... - Harout wrote:
So what Avo is saying, the police did not have weapons on them but the MILITARY had... What's wrong with U man, where have U seen military w/out weapons... "Opposition" shouldn't bring the situation to the extent that military had to be involved. And about You Tube, watch what's happening between the military and the crowd in VAN, TURKEY, this week... - Rafael wrote:
- Harout
So what Avo is saying, the police did not have weapons on them but the MILITARY had... What's wrong with U man, where have U seen military w/out weapons... "Opposition" shouldn't bring the situation to the extent that military had to be involved. And about You Tube, watch what's happening between the military and the crowd in VAN, TURKEY, this week...
First lets get smth straight, it is the right of the people to assemble, it is a constitutional right (until people like Kim balian and gagik harutunian became slient). The opposition didn't bring the situation to some extent, the reason they did what they did on march 1st is because RK knew the personality of LTP and knew that unless he orders a violent clash, LTP and supporters would just stay there. Now the operation on March 1st wasn't conducted by RK bodyguard or whatever, it was headed by Haik Harutunian, head of the military police. Ranking members of the army were all strapped, and I applaud them for not letting their emotions get the best of them, because the crowd there took their anger on the officers, who were following orders. Please understand that on that day at least 100+ people could have died. I can tell you one thing, LTP personally regrets having taken such extreme measures against the ARF during his years in office. - Harout
- Silvia wrote:
Come to think about it, Arshak is right calling the revenge thirsty LTP having small soul and a big ego. Because a "VEHANTSEN" person remains CLASSY Specially when he loses a race, congratulates his opponent, and wishes him well, even helps him. That's what we do in our Sports matches. - Rafael wrote:
- Silvia
Come to think about it, Arshak is right calling the revenge thirsty LTP having small soul and a big ego. Because a "VEHANTSEN" person remains CLASSY Specially when he loses a race, congratulates his opponent, and wishes him well, even helps him. That's what we do in our Sports matches.
Silvia, first comparing sports to politics is like apples to oranges. Second you're implying that the election went fair, and that is not the case. If you believe in negating basic citizen rights, then you would congrad. your opponent and move on. LTP's best hope now is to continue his resistence and in the future create a single opposition bloc. In sports when you score a point it counts, imagine if you kept scoring points but the score didn't change and the other team kept increasing their score, now add the fact that several LTP proxies were kicked out of their districts, and you have a detrimental electoral process. If serge won in the second round I wouldnt be this upset...but a first round win is just not possible, with the given circumstances. - Silvia
- MIHRAN wrote:
- Rafael
I agree with you regarding the Turkish stance, however in my mind our #1 enemy is not Turkey, but ourselves. Turkey is not in Armenia now meddling with our government creating corruption and horrible living conditions...Armenians are doing this to their own people. There are not even 3 million Armenians left in Armenia, it like 2.8 and who is responsible for this? LTP/RK/SS. The RK/SS grew out of the HHSH faction and LTP policy was to get people out of the country so that they would help others in the country. Sounds absurd??? Well that was the official stance HHSH took when they were in power, noting that Armenia coould only hold about 700,000 people <UL class=c> <LI class=italic><STRONG>MIHRAN</STRONG>
addendum:
...opposing party do not tell me i am a dreamer i do not understand armenian politics you already have said this once, only to keep going with needless discussions. USA IS NOT STRONG ENOUGH WHEN IT COMES THE DEFEND THE WRIGHTS OF THE ARMENIAN.AND THAT IS FOR UNDERSTANDABLE REASONS ...NOT BECAUSE USA DOES'NT LIKE TO HELP ARMENIA...THE USA HAS TO PLAY IT'S OWN GEOPOLITICS OF THE REGION.
presently mrs rice invited Nalbantian to a meeting ....
Mihran</LI></UL>
Rafael
Thanks in agreeing with my point of view.
Turkey is only playing games.if? turkey has serious intentions in regarde to Armenian they know what it takes. We armenians should not be blinded with these minor half kind gestures.
To our intelligent/samrt coressponders:
At best you are always ready to insult the dahnaks...sorry guys,you realy should be ashame of using uncivilised language.Your sick minds are betraying your real entities,I don't believe that these words,are spelled by one armenian to another.
Our political parties.... they all came about for the good of armenia.they all have made mistakes,including the communists... particularly in their early years....the most unfortunate of all, is these old communitsts fled their beloved armenia for (soi disant) to better their standard of leaving.They are now using their communists anti-dashnag education in diaspora to teach diasporans a lesson of wisdom....without realising that we have persisted in diaspora true armenians for almost 90 years ...Be ashamed of your insults it is not a true armenian spirit .
Mihran - Rafael
- avo wrote:
exactly. No points made. You don't want to admit the shootings, the violence, and rhe thousands of people protesting. If LTP had no truth in him people would not join him. - MIHRAN wrote:
- avo
exactly. No points made. You don't want to admit the shootings, the violence, and rhe thousands of people protesting. If LTP had no truth in him people would not join him.
Avo
In your mind LTB should have been the president instead of SS .When you make your point,either you don't read to understand the opposing argument,or you disregard (*refuse)all the points made and keep insisting the very basics over and over,so if you want to have a refresher please go to your previous paragraphs and read those answeres if tyhey are not to Your liking ...that's a different story.
Mihran - avo
- Rafael wrote:
- MIHRAN
Avo
In your mind LTB should have been the president instead of SS .When you make your point,either you don't read to understand the opposing argument,or you disregard (*refuse)all the points made and keep insisting the very basics over and over,so if you want to have a refresher please go to your previous paragraphs and read those answeres if tyhey are not to Your liking ...that's a different story.
Mihran
LTP didn't win the election, and neither did serge! Even Robert Mugabe, the so called worst dictator in Africa, didn't do what serge did - MIHRAN
- avo wrote:
there is no opposing arguments.October 27, Rigged elections,100s of 1000s of people protesting, march 1 shootings towards the people, no independent investigation, 100s of political prisoners, ban on marches and rallies, (totally undemocratic), corrupt military, police, judges, high ranking officials, coalition consisting of a traitor, a convicted child rapist (dodi gago), two faced ARF, and a "so-called president" that can't walk into a crowd of everyday people. The only people I respect so far in the government today, so far, is the prime minister and nalbandian. Although they are not saints either. Chew on that 
aaa wrote:- A concerned armenian
You are 100% Ignorant. If it has nothing to do with freedom of expression, free and transparent elections, democracy, freedom of assembly, then why are there political prisoners? Why did March 1 occur? Where is the independent investigation? Where did the PACE demands come from? (And I don't want to hear how Europe and the West is not democratic so therefore they have no right to demand democracy from Armenia.)My dear Dashnaks, Your asses are burning because LTP will not give up to come to power to give our people a chance to live with justice and liberty and in a democratic society and kick your sorry ass sellout political party out of Armenia. As far as Cancer is concerned I think we know who the cancer of Armenia is. It is not Robert Kocharian, Serzh Sarkisian, or the police, it is the Dashnak party living under the skirt of the authorities for over a decade. Chew On That.
My dear friend, I am not dashnak and I have nothing to do with them but I can tell you one true thing. I wish that there were more Dashnaks in Armenia because they really think about oue country more than any other parties.. So if you dont know anything dont bullshit in here and get your fu--in ass out of here..- A concerned armenian
- aaa wrote:
- DASHNAK
To "Concerned Armenian": This guy Arshak has asked a general question "What is the END?" means, and U madmouth Dashnaks... Firstly, Dashnaks do not hate LTP... Secondly, U did NOT answer that very important question, THIRDLY, DASHNAKS NEVER EVER HIDE IN ANYBODY'S behind. If Dashnaks really want to get rid of someone, does not matter who, From Talaat to Nagashitze, to Any Armenia trator or separator, history shows they are not shy to do so, even in broad daylight. So don't be a M.F...saying "Burning asses" to Dashnaks. U-R everything but "Concerned" about this situation. LTP WAS BROUGHT DOWN CAUSE HE WANTED TO SELL KARABAGH. NOBODY TOUCHES KARABAGH NOBODY...
My dear friend, it was Kocharian who wanted to sell Meghri and some other parts.. And dont forger that I Levon was a president when we won the war!!! - DASHNAK
- Rafael wrote:
- avo
there is no opposing arguments.October 27, Rigged elections,100s of 1000s of people protesting, march 1 shootings towards the people, no independent investigation, 100s of political prisoners, ban on marches and rallies, (totally undemocratic), corrupt military, police, judges, high ranking officials, coalition consisting of a traitor, a convicted child rapist (dodi gago), two faced ARF, and a "so-called president" that can't walk into a crowd of everyday people. The only people I respect so far in the government today, so far, is the prime minister and nalbandian. Although they are not saints either. Chew on that
I would add Raffi Hovhannisian to that list of respected people. ARF is not the only ones that are two faced, so is Orinats Yerkir. ARF and OYP both know that in order to advance their agenda they must join coalition. And Arturik joined so he can have power and not have 'the man' bothering his businesses, its interesting that a day after Arturik resigned his post from speaker, he was looking for a buyer of his electronic store on Mashtots ave. - avo
- Rafael wrote:
- aaa
My dear friend, I am not dashnak and I have nothing to do with them but I can tell you one true thing. I wish that there were more Dashnaks in Armenia because they really think about oue country more than any other parties.. So if you dont know anything dont bullshit in here and get your fu--in ass out of here..
Which type of Dashnaks? Because the Armenian ARF is different then outseide Armenia ARF...i mean their members and how each individual approaches issues, actually if you want to take my word for it, certain ARF members, who shall remain anonymous, say that outside Armenia ARF members, are not that much ambitious about Armenia's political future. - aaa
Mjasnik wrote:- ARSHAK-10
Somebody explain us what is Struggle till "THE END" What is THE END? Taking down the present president and put LTP??? or Never be satisfied till they do WHAT?? We have a sick feeling that This NOT about Armenia... This is PERSONAL w/foreign help. This is a CANCER CELL...
I think u dident get it.
with the end he means till his dead.
wont take long bi the way cuzz like u know people hate him a lot.- ARSHAK-10
- MIHRAN wrote:
[quote=Rafael]My fellow Armenians here (mostly dashnaks) might argue dashnaks dont hate LTP or Dashnaks are for a better Armenia (and them joining the coalition provided that), and they might even refer to certain newspaper articles, but when it comes down to it they are Armenia who were never insiders during the movement that started from the Karabagh committee. I'm not negating this comments I'm just saying unless someone can tell me that he was a insider during those times, your info is not accurate, to some extent. I'm not saying I was LTP butler, but I know a little or two things about what went on during the LTP era. First the reason LTP banned Dashnaks is that when he go elected they tried to bully him, by presenting their agendas on him (if one wants to argue with me, then present smth useful and not some article or opinion). When LTP jailed the Dashnak heads (one of them being VH) the party backlashed against LTP. The ARF doesn't like LTP for what he did to them, simple as that. Now Arshak-10 says what doesn struggle til the end mean? well in opera he said it means until the crowd carries him to the presidential palace. Now please don't mix LTP with whats going on in Armenia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People like Ara Sahakian and Karo Rubinian were NOT active LTP supporters, but are in jail??? Can someone explain this to me, and don't quote some garbage newspaper, because I was there when Sahakian got arrested by like 14 OMON troops!!! Why is Arzumanian in jail? because he supported a opposition candidate? because he didn't acknowledge the Armenian election? If someone here thinks SS passed fair and square in the first round then they are a idiot!!!, because RK couldnt even pass SD in the first round (LTP, SD, RH, AS were all under one ticket). Now for the rest of the commentators, lets face it the ARF will never come to power in Armenia, they are not a force there. Yes the ARF is a force amongst the Diaspora, but in Armenia its a different ball game. Arshak You say if LTP is so good why people took him down??? If your talking about his resignation, no body took him down he resigned to prevent bloodshead. Also the people in Armenia are always not happy (look when it was ASSR they blammed the commies, when it was LTP they blammed LTP and said oh god remember those commie days, when KR/SS came they said oh god look at these karabaghtsis remember LTP and his intellectuallness. If you would have had 100%control for the Armenian election and reduced all forms of bribary (hypotherically), then LTP would have won SS because they view him as the lesser of two evils. I would have voted for neither, because there are better candidates. Now 'Dashnak' says LTP was brought down because he wanted to sell karabagh??? I ask you to go to Armenia, wait in front of LTP house long enough and beg him to talk to you so that you'll know what really happened??? No one wanted to sell nothing!!! And for future discussions please don't invent ideas and try to pass them off as facts.[/quote
RAFAEL
You say that ARF will never come to power:
ARF knows where it's stands exactly... DON'T BET YOUR MONEY... they still need time,it's true.dashnags are probably the most experienced political party armenians have...( this is my personel idea)some people will disagree with me they will try to break my head.They are entiteled to their ideas,as long as they are polite/respectfull/educational. Insults are not a valid way to express any view.A dashnag will answere like wise only if the opposing party exagerates ... I personally don't care and my answeres have no insults ...
Every single political party,since 1921 made mistakes.
I remembre one of the coresponders said , if LTB comes to power he will be a SUPER HERO better than Kemal Attaturk. A comparison?.... we need a system that any ellected PRESIDENT under the present democratic standards of armenia would be able to run the country.We are not a full fledge democracy yet.Democracy isn't sold at the super markets...
Mihran 
The beast wrote:- Rafael
Which type of Dashnaks? Because the Armenian ARF is different then outseide Armenia ARF...i mean their members and how each individual approaches issues, actually if you want to take my word for it, certain ARF members, who shall remain anonymous, say that outside Armenia ARF members, are not that much ambitious about Armenia's political future.
The same crap coming out of your dirty mouth, you poor soul 40 faces liar, while you are playing the wise guy here, you are describing spyurkahays with the worst words a human can use.
Dashnaks were born 118 years ago, they have seen too many LTPs and Rafaels, guess what, LTPs and Rafaels disappeared, Dashnaks are still there, doing the best they can with their shooes in your mouth.- Rafael
- Rafael wrote:
- The beast
The same crap coming out of your dirty mouth, you poor soul 40 faces liar, while you are playing the wise guy here, you are describing spyurkahays with the worst words a human can use.
Dashnaks were born 118 years ago, they have seen too many LTPs and Rafaels, guess what, LTPs and Rafaels disappeared, Dashnaks are still there, doing the best they can with their shooes in your mouth.
Beast, please try to make positive statements, not normative ones. If your not a person of intellectual capability, then dont bother to post. Second, this is what I mean by the division of ARF, and every ARF member will argee with me, The Diaspora ARF puts more emphasis on the Armenian Genocide and forwards this issue, while the ARF in Armenia puts more emphasis on the Armenian political Arena. Im describing Spyrkahye with the worst words? Im stating the obvious there is not bad/good here it is what it is. You have your head stuck up the ARF's ass, you fail to realize the real issue. If I was to bring a promonent ARF official in Armenia and have him tell you that the Diaspora ARF should concentrate more on the Armenian political arena, you'd say here's another Rafael or LTP. For your sake, understand my point, Im not bashing the ARF, in fact members of your Dashnak party have suggested putting greater emphasis on the Armenian political Arena. - The beast
- Rafael wrote:
Mihran,
Both of us have been to Armenia numerous times. I have participated both in LTP and HHK meetings. Now with the current situation and holding the Armenian people constant, the chances that the ARF will become a top party is not a lot. This is the case that I make, FACT: The ARF with their 100 plus years couldn't overcome BHK and their less than one year existence in the 2007 elections. It just shows that the ARF platform is not a popular one in Armenia. Please ARF-fans dont get mad and write hater responses, im stating the obvious and if that hurts so what, BHK crushed ARF. Now one can suggest that BHK used its $$$ to well buy votes, by offering people free health services, eye exams, new apartment doors, etc. Though this is by all means corruption, it is sadly the Armenian way of conducting politics. In 2008 all parties used such tactics, yes even LTP did it too. Now if the ARF wants to be successful in Armenia it should do the same. Its sad that this is the level the ARF, HHK, and other parties must resort to win, but its reality, and there is no change in the near future. - Rafael wrote:
Mihran,
If people like 'the beast' are the members of the ARF, well then the ARF would progress much. In the city I reside in the only people that are an active Armenian political organization are the ARF, and that is its biggest advantage and strength...that the ARF congregates Armenians together. Mihran this is what I dont understand? Everytime I question the ARF as a party, I get responses just like those from the Beast, which are mostly opinionated. If one isn't able to support his answers with some form of logic or empirical evidence, then what good is his response, since it clearly bears no significance over someone else's response? - MIHRAN wrote:
- The beast
The same crap coming out of your dirty mouth, you poor soul 40 faces liar, while you are playing the wise guy here, you are describing spyurkahays with the worst words a human can use.
Dashnaks were born 118 years ago, they have seen too many LTPs and Rafaels, guess what, LTPs and Rafaels disappeared, Dashnaks are still there, doing the best they can with their shooes in your mouth.
BEAST
If you are from mtl. we probably have met each other... I agree about dashnagsoutioun and their proactif attitude in defending the wrights of armenians.However a sensible language will force the most arrogants to defeat.Insults are not DASHNAGS prefered method of communication.
However every body is free to choose a modality to answere.I am certain that you also agree with me....
Unfortunately the new arrivals who were thought to hate dashnags...I guess... willingly disregard the fact that it was mainly the dashnags... to some extent the huntchags and armenagans who established the first hanrabedoutioun after seven centuries of slavery under the turkish yok ...(shamelessly some communists blame dashnags for the genocide).
The communists inherited a state in shambles... because the newly born state started from scratch no money no wealth no nothing,armenia was going through the most difficult period of it's history.dashnags were putting the foundations of a free and independant armenia against all odds.The communists disregarde all these facts and forced armenia to become a soviet state.WE ALL KNOW THE AMMOUNT OF INNOCENT DASHNAG SACRIFICES FOR THE HOMELAND..yet we have forgoten i can not say forgiven because i am not an authorised personel to make such statements. Eventually they got fooled by THEIR COMMUNIST PATRONS ... no promisses were ever kept... BOLCHEVICS PROMISSED THE WHOLE OF WESTERN ARMENIA....ARMENIANS ONLY MANAGED TO KEEP THE PROCESS OF AN ARMENIAN STATEHOOD ALIVE.(no need to mention all the anti armenian actions put in place in regrds to western armenian territories ...)
I don't know to which party rafael belongs,probably he is raised in armenia and is enjoing his freedom of SPEECH.I see some neutral stances in him,i do defend my opinions when they are evaluated out of perspectiv.
Mihran - The beast
- Rafael wrote:
Mihran,
I left Armenia at 8, so I think its unfair to say I was raised there. Yes I had a childhood there, but my upbringing to society happened in the States, and freedom of speech is a basic right of every human. You can agree (ie: the USSR) if freedom of speech is neglected then it increases civil unrest, which can result on civil unrest, and at times political change. I didn't grow up under the Soviet Banner. To me the ARF is just a party (well maybe more then a party because of their long roots with contemporary Armenia). The ARF can easily be the dominant party in Armenia, but it chooses to tackle the genocide issue (nothing wrong or right). I truly think the ARF's history is the reason its unpopular, as many people view its platform out of touch with current Armenian civil situation, but thats just my opinion.
58 days before | 
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© AUA
Today in Armenian history- 1847 Summit Meeting of the representatives of the Transcaucasian Armenian community.
- 1847 With the participation of the gentry and commoners, the National, Ecclesiastic, and Supreme Council is created in Constantinople. It is the first step towards the creation of the "Constitution".
- 1859 A Committee, consisting of 5 clergymen and 14 laymen, is struck in Constantinople to write the "Constitution". The Chariman was Rusinian.
- 1945 End of World War Two (known as the "Great Patriotic War" in the USSR).
- 1964 Death of Vahan Totomyants, professor and public figure.
- 1992 Shooshee (Artsakh) is liberated after 71 years of occupation by Azeri Turks.
- 1994 Protocol negotiated in the Artsakh War and signed in Bishkek (Kirgizstan) by the parliamentary speakers of Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Artsakh as mediated by Presidents Boris Yeltsin of Russia and Nursultan Nazarbayev of Kazakhstan. This was the first recognition of Artsakhs distinctiveness as a political and territorial entity in the negotiations. Azerbaijan occupied 750 sq. km. (15%) of Artsakhs territory, while Artsakh occupied 7059 sq. km. (8%) of territory considered to have traditionally been possessed by Azerbaijan.
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